These café owners started a shop with credit cards and a $30,000 loan. They say it's worth it to run a business in NYC.

Ilia Penzin and Liliia Penzina at their café, T.O.L.K., in Bushwick.

Paola Chapdelaine for BI

• Ilia Penzin and Liliia Penzina run T.O.L.K., a café in Bushwick, NYC, facing financial hurdles.
• T.O.L.K., opened in 2025, serves as both a coffee shop and art gallery, promoting local artists.
• Despite financial struggles, Penzin and Penzina remain hopeful, aiming to expand their NYC business.

Ilia Penzin and Liliia Penzina call their café and art gallery their baby.

"A big baby," Penzina said, laughing. The entrepreneurs' first year running T.O.L.K. in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Bushwick has been defined by the personal sacrifice and precarity of running a small business in one of the most expensive cities in the US. To fund the startup costs, they moved in with roommates to save on rent, took a $30,000 loan from family, and went into credit card debt. Still, they remain optimistic and would encourage other would-be entrepreneurs to follow their dreams.

The café is located at 286 Stanhope St, Brooklyn, NY 11237.

Paola Chapdelaine for BI

"The United States is the best country to try a business," Penzin said. "We love coffee, we love hospitality. We decided to open a café."

For Business Insider's Cost of the City series, the couple detailed what it took to get off the ground, the day-to-day costs, and why they have yet to turn a profit.

Do you have experience opening or running a business in NYC? Share your story with a reporter at mros@businessinsider.com.

Managing the costs of a business in NYC

Penzin and Penzina, who met in school in Russia 15 years ago, applied for asylum in the US after the start of the Russia-Ukraine war. Knowing little English, they worked in hospitality and cafes to get by, but they desired to build something for themselves.

With a dream in mind, they cut personal expenses, including moving from a one-bedroom apartment into a $1,150 room in a three-bedroom apartment. Penzin spent three months building the space that would become T.O.L.K. while Penzina worked three barista jobs.

Now that they're open for business, Penzin handles management, vendors, budgeting, and banking, while Penzina handles the café and art gallery's daily operations. The café's white walls are normally covered with local artwork, and the rest of the open space is taken up by a sofa, a few circular tables, and a dog station with water and treats.

Ilia Penzin and Liliia Penzina have been together for 15 years, and married for six.

Paola Chapdelaine for BI

Nearly a year in, the coffee shop is not making enough to cover its costs. Records provided by the owners show the café generated an average of about $5,600 net sales a month from January to June and paid $2,700 in monthly rent, almost half of the monthly net sales. After paying rent, food expenses, and additional costs, the café was left with a cash shortfall of roughly $900 a month.

Penzin said the main challenge is getting more customers. The café has averaged 24 checks per day at around $8.76 each, totaling roughly $212 in gross sales per day — not enough to have the business pay for itself.

To supplement the income, Penzin works as a handyman, assembling furniture, doing small renovations, and painting. He uses the same tools and the 2008 Toyota Highlander he bought for the coffee shop.

The couple has only taken three days off this year and put all their energy into running the café, but they consider it worth it.

"It's not making us unhappy. We're just working; it's our job to make this business operate," Penzin said. Penzina added, "You are motivated already because you try to survive. If you don't have money, it's your motivation."

Ilia Penzin helping out a T.O.L.K. customer.

Paola Chapdelaine for BI

Think, Observe, Listen, Know.

T.O.L.K. stands for: Think, Observe, Listen, Know — reflecting how the couple wants customers to experience the space. The name also transcends its English acronym. In Russian, tolk means "meaning, understanding, and having a sense or purpose," while in various Scandinavian languages it refers to an "interpreter," someone meant to translate and understand ideas for others — something T.O.L.K. strives to do by being a community space.

"That felt especially fitting for a space built around art, coffee, conversation, and community: a place where people can exchange perspectives, discover new ideas, and find meaning in what they see and experience," he said.

The café strives to be a place where beginner artists can display their work affordably; T.O.L.K. doesn't take commission. At the same time, guests who may not have time to visit galleries can enjoy art on their daily coffee runs.

Temporary art exhibition displayed on the café walls.

Paola Chapdelaine for BI

"Everybody has the time at least once a day to go to any coffee shop and get coffee," Penzin said. "But they never go to see the local arts."

Penzina usually creates a special drinks menu inspired by the current artist and exhibition at the coffee shop.

"I try to find how to combine coffee and art," she said. "It's like a liquid version of the person and a liquid version of their art."

With all the money, energy, and time the couple has put in, they don't see quitting or burning out as an option. Their dream is to expand their business and open more spots in the future, possibly moving upstate or to Long Island.

T.O.L.K. daily menu.

Paola Chapdelaine for BI

"We definitely will not give up on our entrepreneur journey — we definitely will fight until we succeed."

For them, the cost is worth it to live in NYC. They find the business and cultural opportunities in the five boroughs unmatched.

"You pay for those opportunities, for convenience, for your dream," he said. Referencing a popular Russian phrase that alludes to the feeling of relief, he emphasized: "When we drive back from different states, and we see the sign 'New York City,' we feel a stone, a rock, fall from our soul."

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We tracked how much 3 young startup founders actually sleep

Lance Yan, Kavitta Ghai, and Boris Skurikhin shared four days of sleep schedules with Business Insider.

Lance Yan; Kavitta Ghai; Boris Skurikhin

• As Silicon Valley embraces hardcore work schedules, founders debate the best sleeping habits.
• Business Insider tracked the sleep schedules of three young founders for four days.
• One founder got admittedly bad sleep. Another had a clear regimen to get her seven hours.

The young class of AI founders has gone hardcore, with sober lifestyles and 996 schedules.

Sleep, however, remains an open question.

There are two competing sleep cultures in Silicon Valley. The biohackers say that rest helps optimize performance. The hustlers say that founders should work through the night. To sleep or not to sleep, that is the question.

Business Insider asked three young founders to share their sleep habits. And to be scientific about it, we didn't just take their word for it. We spent four days tracking their shut-eye, requesting early morning texts detailing their prior night.

Some founders demanded their Zzzs. Others stayed up grinding.

Lance Yan knows he doesn't sleep enough

Traverse founder Lance Yan said he knows there has to be "a balance between chilling and locking in." He hasn't found it.

Lance Yan

Lance Yan knows sleep is important. Bryan Johnson gave a talk to his Y Combinator batch, after all.

And yet, the 19-year-old founder of the AI startup Traverse often gets only 5 to 6 hours of sleep. "If there's any work, I usually end up staying on longer and dragging it out," he said.

It's still better than his YC days. "We would wake up when it was dark, and go to sleep when it was sunny," Yan said.

Yan works late, then doomscrolls in bed until he falls asleep. When he wakes up, he starts working almost immediately. He knows it's bad.

"There has to be a balance between chilling and locking in," he said.

Yan's sleep diary:

• Monday: 3 hours of sleep. Slept "horribly" and was in bed from 4 to 8 a.m.
• Tuesday: 6.5 hours of sleep. Worked late, but let himself sleep in. Was in bed from 3 to 10 a.m.
• Wednesday: 5 hours of sleep, from 4 to 9 a.m. His health stats "got cooked" because he had only one meal and a "tiny bit" of water.
• Thursday: 5 hours of sleep, between 3 and 8 a.m. It was "also not the best," but he felt good after eating regular meals.

Kavitta Ghai has firm sleeping rules

Kavitta Ghai wears a sleep mask and takes magnesium every night.

Kavitta Ghai

Kavitta Ghai will never, ever pull an all-nighter.

The 29-year-old cofounder of the ed-tech startup Nectir can see instantly when she hasn't slept enough. It shows up in her work and in her cognitive function. So, she'll stop everything to get her 7 hours.

Ghai's best thinking comes in the late evening and early morning, so she often doesn't sleep until 3 a.m. Her chief of staff knows: no meetings until 11 a.m.

She wants her employees to be able to work when they function best, too. Nectir is remote, and will always remain remote, she said. "It allows people to do their work on their schedule," she said.

Ghai is exacting about her sleep. She takes magnesium every night and sets the temperature between 66 and 68 degrees. She wears a sleep mask and a Whoop band. Her body doesn't touch the bed until it's bedtime.

It works: Ghai said that she falls asleep in under 3 minutes.

Ghai's sleep diary:

• Monday: 7 hours and 32 minutes of sleep. Had "a ton of dreams," but forgot to journal them in the morning.
• Tuesday: 8 hours and 2 minutes of sleep. That's "a little longer than I prefer," Ghai said. So she woke up groggy.
• Wednesday: 7 hours and 28 minutes of sleep. Usually meditating before bed helps her dream, but this night she had no dreams that night, "which sucks."
• Thursday: 7 hours and 7 minutes of sleep. Ghai wished she had gotten 30 more minutes.

Boris Skurikhin is not a grindmaxxer

Boris Skurikhin has yet to build his IKEA bed frame.

Boris Skurikhin

Boris Skurikhin has an expensive mattress with no bed frame.

Well, he does have a bed frame, but he hasn't gotten around to assembling it. "I will do it soon," the 26-year-old cofounder of the AI startup Docket said. "I keep telling myself this."

Skurikhin gets in bed around 12 a.m. and then starts watching something on his laptop. He's not scrolling. He prefers a documentary or a long YouTube video.

He's not one to cut down on his sleep. He described what might be called a "grindmaxxer" in his coworking space who works constantly and never sleeps.

"He was also the hospitalmaxxer," he said. "It's just not healthy."

Skurikhin's sleep diary:

• Monday: 7.5 hours of sleep. Fell asleep at 2 a.m. to UFC videos. Woke up briefly at 7:30 a.m. because he "drank too much tea before bed."
• Tuesday: 8 hours and 40 minutes of sleep. Fell asleep at 1:30 a.m. and woke up at 10:10 a.m.
• Wednesday: 7 hours of sleep. Fell asleep at 1:30 a.m. to videos about athlete rivalries in sports. Woke up early because he left his window open.
• Thursday: 7 hours and 20 minutes of sleep. Fell asleep at 2 a.m. while watching the 2002 movie "Copenhagen."

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Small businesses are using a classic benefit to stay competitive in attracting and keeping workers

A higher share of US job postings mentioned 401(k) plans than several years ago.

Daisy-Daisy/Getty Images

• Small businesses can attract and retain staff with 401(k) plans.
• Business owners can offer it in lieu of more costly benefits that they can't yet afford.
• It can help reduce first-year quits, a Gusto analysis found.

Sara Marye wanted to get more serious about the benefits she offered.

Several months after promoting a part-time employee to full-time status at her school-curriculum small business in 2024, she wanted to ensure it remains an attractive place to work.

"If I want to keep her, I need to give her reasons to stay," said Marye, an educator turned entrepreneur in 2015 when she started The Stellar Teacher Company. The employee had been working there since 2021.

Marye thought about what she could afford that she could add on top of the existing flexible perks. Offering a 401(k) plan was the answer, a perk that would also benefit Marye herself and help with retention beyond the full-time worker.

Most of her four part-time workers are former teachers who still want to be involved in education while staying home as parents.

"The fact that they are able to have a part-time job with a 401(k), I think, gives them just a lot more comfort in the fact that they aren't having to sacrifice their future financial security for the time that they want to spend raising their family now," said Marye, who has been offering the 401(k) plan since 2025.

When small businesses are starting out, they have to figure out how to get off the ground, market their work, and manage their expenses. As businesses make a name for themselves, grow their profits, and staff up, they need to figure out how to attract and retain employees. Having a 401(k) plan — the kind of benefit that's typically more often offered by larger employers — can help, especially if they can't yet afford more costly benefits, like healthcare. It can also be a financial perk for business owners on payroll.

Maintaining staff

A Gusto analysis of its internal small-business data shows that offering a 401(k) to workers translates to roughly 8% fewer quits in the first year of employment compared to those that don't offer one.

Nich Tremper, a senior economist at Gusto, said these employers don't have to face a gap in work coverage until they can backfill a position, which can affect productivity, or waste time and money looking for and training a new hire. Tremper said employers face the greatest risk of an employee quitting in their first year, so they can try to reduce that risk by offering retirement plans, even if employees can't enroll right away.

"We see 401(k)s having the highest ROI on retention," Tremper said, adding, "because it's a benefit that tells your employees that you are invested in their long-term financial future."

Howard Telson has been running the remote accounting firm Scale CPA since 2022. He started offering a 401(k) plan about a year and a half ago.

He likes it as a recruiting tool, since his firm hires pretty consistently, and to keep his current staff, many of whom come from larger companies where they're accustomed to this perk.

"We're often competing against bigger companies or bigger firms that do offer these types of benefits," he said. "It's been important to be competitive in the marketplace."

Telson works with small businesses at his firm, where he discusses tax-optimization strategies, such as retirement plans.

"It's kind of a multi-tier benefit that we'll recommend, a 401(k) plan or another type of retirement plan to clients, one, to allow them to basically have some tax deferral and save on their personal taxes, two, to attract talent, and three, it also offers some tax credits as well for the first three years when you set up the program," he said.

Affording retirement plans

Marye worried about whether she would be able to afford having a retirement plan as a small-business owner, and setting it up seemed daunting. However, she said it wasn't complicated and wasn't as big an expense as she thought it would be.

Payroll platforms like Gusto and ADP offer 401(k) plan management services at relatively low costs for small businesses, charging a modest base fee and then single-digit monthly fees per participant. Retirement offerings also tend to be less expensive for small business owners than healthcare benefits; Bureau of Labor Statistics data showed the average employer contribution for family medical care coverage at businesses with fewer than 50 workers has surpassed $1,000 per employee since 2021.

Ashley Kent also offers 401(k) benefits to her workers and herself. Kent, who has been in business since 2018, said she can't justify offering healthcare just yet since the cost is too much for the business's size.

"It allowed me to then offer this to employees and was something that was very attractive to new employees coming in here," said Kent, founder and CEO of Clearstart, a marketing brand and growth consultancy for healthcare organizations.

Kent has 10 full-time workers, and they were eligible to enroll after a year of employment, so she thinks it helps with retention. "Agencies are known for very high turnover, and so that was something that was important to me to try and retain individuals," Kent said.

As she hires more senior workers, she would consider adding healthcare benefits, since they could be important for job seekers weighing the trade-offs of different job opportunities.

Looking beyond small business

Small businesses aren't the only organizations offering 401(k)s to boost recruitment and retention.

Indeed's data covering all sizes of employers showed that job postings mentioning 401(k)s have increased since 2020. Laura Ullrich, the director of economic research in North America at the Indeed Hiring Lab, thinks employers could be doing so to improve their recruiting. Some reasons for the uptick in advertised plans, she said, include employers publishing more thorough job descriptions, job seekers wanting to know the full compensation package, and companies dealing with the mismatch between available jobs and people's skills.

"If you look at the immediate post-COVID period, you might have seen companies start advertising it more because it was a really hard time to find workers, and then I'm guessing over time, it's just more and more companies have realized that it's a good way to show more total compensation versus just value," Ullrich said.

Mentions in education and instruction were 15% in spring 2026, the lowest share among the occupations, and up from 7%. Ullrich said pensions, rather than defined contribution plans like 401(k)s, are more common in that type of work, so that could explain why the share is relatively low.

Employers are also advertising better 401(k) matches, which Ullrich said could help make employees more hesitant to switch jobs.

"When indexed to January 2020, the three-month-moving-average share of postings advertising a 401(k) match of 5% or higher has risen more than fivefold, outpacing the growth in any other category of retirement benefit," a report by Indeed Hiring Lab economist An Nguyen said, adding that postings just saying "retirement plan" didn't change much from the baseline.

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Waymo is eating into the ride-hailing market in some cities. The fallout for human drivers stays fuzzy.

Waymo's robotaxis captured roughly one in every seven dollars spent on rides in its San Francisco operating zone in June.

Yalonda M. James/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images

• An Uber executive shared third-party data on X showing Waymo's standing in its most mature markets.
• The data showed Waymo taking 15% to 19% of rider spending in SF, LA, and Phoenix.
• Waymo maintained its foothold as it expanded its geofence in some of the regions.

Alphabet's Waymo is taking a bite out of ride-hailing in its most mature markets, third-party data showed.

And that share is large enough that its effects on human drivers could be detectable, Gad Allon, a Wharton professor who studies the gig economy, said.

Just don't expect it to look like a visible wave of displaced drivers.

"My initial view is that the impact would not first appear as large numbers of drivers suddenly losing their jobs," Allon told Business Insider. "Because driver supply is flexible, the earliest effects would likely show up in utilization, longer waits between rides, fewer trips per hour, and possibly more unpaid repositioning."

Utilization refers to the percentage of a driver's time online spent on paid trips.

Data from Yipit, a market research firm, estimated that Waymo accounted for 15% of gross bookings — dollars spent on rides — in San Francisco and Los Angeles in June and 16% in Phoenix. In January, the figures were 16%, 17%, and 19%, respectively.

Yipit calculated the shares among Waymo, Uber, and Lyft by looking at trips that begin and end inside Waymo's operating zones, a Yipit spokesperson said. Estimates are based on email receipts from a sample of about 1.5 million active US consumer accounts.

The figures don't represent the number of trips. Waymo's share of actual rides could be higher or lower depending on its prices compared with Uber and Lyft.

Yipit also cautioned that Waymo's share can appear to decline as it expands into new areas, where the service may initially be less popular. In May, Waymo said it expected to expand its Bay Area footprint by 60 square miles.

Despite the caveat around expansions, Waymo's share remained in the mid-teens in all three markets through June.

Uber CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy also shared Yipit's data on X this month while discussing Uber's competitive position. He said Uber uses internal tracking for decision-making and shared Yipit's figures as an externally available reference.

Driver displacement may not look like layoffs

There have been hints that the rideshare workforce is changing as robotaxis grow.

Allon, the Wharton professor, said Waymo's 15% share is a "serious shock" to the labor market, even if the impact on human drivers is diluted because they also work beyond Waymo's geofences.

"The reason it doesn't look like one is that the adjustment runs through hours and exits rather than layoffs," Allon said, referring to drivers working fewer hours or not returning to the platform.

Last year, data from Gridwise, a ride-hailing data platform, showed hourly driver wages declined in Austin, Los Angeles, Phoenix, and San Francisco — areas where Waymo operates — while the national median rose 1%. Researchers told Business Insider that the data couldn't establish that robotaxis were the cause.

Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi told Fast Company in a June profile that his company is recruiting fewer drivers in some cities where AVs operate. At the same time, Uber has said more drivers are signing up organically as rider demand grows.

A Lyft spokesperson pointed to CEO David Risher's prepared remarks for the company's second-quarter earnings call on August 6.

"We believe the future is hybrid and, as AVs scale, the market will expand," he said, adding that Lyft rides within SF's AV operating area grew about 20% year over year.

Spokespeople for Waymo and Uber did not respond to a request for comment.

The fallout is hard to measure

Katie Wells, a senior fellow at the AI Now Institute who has studied Uber drivers, told Business Insider that the lack of certain data makes it difficult to measure driver displacement.

"We don't know how much, we don't know when, we don't know where," Wells told Business Insider. Researchers would need data such as utilization and wait times to identify the effects, she said.

Part of the challenge lies in the nature of gig work. Wells said that because drivers are independent contractors rather than employees, robotaxi displacement may not show up as a measurable decline in employment.

Wells has documented how the prospect of automation affected drivers before commercial robotaxis arrived.

She said that she and her coauthors tracked a cohort of 40 Uber drivers over five years. During that time, she found that drivers feel less incentivized to push for better working conditions because they believed their work would eventually disappear.

"Uber drivers kept saying to us, 'Well, automated vehicles are coming, so they won't need me anymore,'" she said. "This is temporary."

Have a tip? Contact this reporter via email at lloydlee@businessinsider.com or Signal at lloydlee.71. Use a personal email address, a nonwork WiFi network, and a nonwork device; here's our guide to sharing information securely.

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Sam Altman says 4 years could be too long for college: ‘The way the world has evolved, college just shouldn’t be as long as it is’

OpenAI CEO Sam Altman has no regrets about dropping out of Stanford.

Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images

• OpenAI CEO Sam Altman thinks two years in college was just right for him.
• Altman said he thinks that maybe four years might be too long for others, too.
• Altman shared other thoughts and advice, including why it's often a waste to try to be taken seriously.

OpenAI CEO Sam Altman said two years in college was "the exact right amount of time" for him. It may be for others, too.

"I think I learned a lot, and it would have been like vastly diminishing returns," Altman recently told investor Cory Levy during a surprise appearance at Internapalooza, Levy's networking summit for tech interns.

Altman said the four-year college experience may not be necessary in today's world.

"I've sort of thought that maybe the way the world has evolved, college just shouldn't be as long as it is, but it was still great to meet people and kind of like live on your own and get to work on projects," he said.

In 2005, the future OpenAI chief dropped out of Stanford after two years to cofound Loopt, an app that allowed users to share their location with friends. Loopt went on to be part of the first Y Combinator batch, which paved the way for Altman's eventual rise to running the famed startup incubator himself.

Altman said two more years of college "would have not been that great."

"So, I was very happy with how it went, but you don't get to run the experiment twice," he said. "I know a lot of people now who have not gone to college at all and done great."

Altman's views align with those of others in tech, most notably his mentor and PayPal cofounder Peter Thiel, who supports a fellowship that awards $250,000 to young people to skip college entirely or at least take a break from their studies.

Altman's career advice

The OpenAI chief had additional advice for those in the audience, including why it's often a waste for young entrepreneurs to try to be taken seriously.

"I think people put too much effort into trying to get taken seriously, and you can sort of get a long way in life and career just by doing stuff," Altman said. "And I think this is much more true now than ever before. You can make a whole startup kind of by yourself in a room with a lot of AI tokens, but not much else."

Altman said that in some cases, you may just need to add someone to your team.

"If you were trying to do enterprise sales to a big, stodgy, old company, then it kind of does," he said. "And after trying and failing to get taken seriously in that specific way for a while, I was like, 'I'm just going to hire a 50-year-old.'"

Asked about the time when he juggled OpenAI and his other duties, Altman said it's bad advice to tell people starting out to focus on just a single project.

"I think it's fine to work on multiple projects for a little while because you don't really know what's going to work," he said. "You don't really know what you're going to be interested in. You don't really know what's going to be a good fit. But then the mistake that people do make is as soon as you figure out what your highest conviction thing is, that is when you're supposed to do the painful work of getting free from the other stuff and going all in."

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Anthropic has soared to a $1.5 trillion valuation on secondary markets. Almost no one wants to sell.

Dario Amodei is the co-founder and CEO of Anthropic,

Bloomberg/Getty Images

• Since Anthropic is still private, the vast majority of investors buy on secondary markets.
• Anthropic's secondary valuation has soared to $1.5 trillion over the past month, a 25% increase.
• Anthropic's valuation has continued to climb even as its competitors have been closing the gap.

Investors still can't get enough of Anthropic.

As the AI giant races towards what could be one of the largest IPOs in history, its shares are changing hands on secondary markets at valuations as high as $1.5 trillion, even as competition from OpenAI and Chinese open-source models intensifies.

Anthropic's private market valuation has recently soared to as much as $1.5 trillion, a 25% increase over the past month, according to three secondary traders who spoke with Business Insider. The catch is that shares are incredibly tough to get.

"The few sellers on our books are around $1.5 trillion," said Glen Anderson, CEO of Rainmaker Securities, a merchant bank focused on private securities transactions. "Even at that number, there aren't a lot of sellers out there."

Anthropic was last valued at $965 billion in a funding round announced in May. In June, it filed paperwork to go public, with an expected public market debut in the next few months.

"People are trying to position themselves ahead of the IPO," said Adam Crawley, president of Augment, a marketplace to invest in private shares.

Since Anthropic is still private, the vast majority of investors buy on secondary markets, where existing stock is sold by employees or early investors. Some are legitimate, while others have involved suspect deals with high fees and byzantine ownership structures structured as SPVs, or special-purpose vehicles, which allow investors to pool their funds for a single, one-off deal.

Anthropic declined to comment for this story. On its website, it has become more explicit in cautioning against unauthorized stock sales and scams.

Some buyers have heeded the warnings and are being more choosy about which stock they buy, according to Aman Verjee, a general partner at Practical Venture Capital.

"Many buyers are now asking for direct cap table exposure," he said. "Demand for nested SPVs with indirect exposure, less reporting rights, or exposure to Anthropic's earlier rounds and common shares is softer, and I'm not seeing a lot of demand at $1.5 trillion for that, but there is some."

Soaring valuation even as competition increases

Anthropic's secondary valuation has continued to climb even as its competitors have been closing the gap.

OpenAI's answer to Claude Code, Codex, reached 5 million active monthly users in June, and the company's latest models, GPT-5.6 Terra and the lower-cost GPT-5.6 Luna, have been well received. At the same time, China's Moonshot AI has emerged as a more serious threat, with its Kimi models gaining traction as a far cheaper alternative.

OpenAI has seen a resurgence of interest from secondary buyers this summer. However, its price has stayed relatively flat, hovering around the $852 billion valuation of the funding round it closed in March with more supply, according to Crawley.

By contrast, Anthropic's valuation has continued to soar, and Crawley is seeing way more buyers than sellers.

"With an IPO coming soon, you don't have a lot of willing sellers," he said.

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Former Google, Tinder, and AWS interns share 4 tips for turning an internship into a full-time offer

Former interns from Google, Tinder, and AWS suggested making connections with other employees.

nd3000/Getty Images

• Former interns from Google, AWS, and Tinder share their tips for securing full-time offers.
• They suggested building connections at the company and raising your hand.
• They also advised taking agency, showing curiosity, and keeping track of your wins.

It's almost the end of summer, which means interns everywhere are approaching the looming question they've probably been avoiding: Am I getting a return offer?

The job market may feel more chaotic and competitive than usual — and AI certainly adds a layer of uncertainty as it reshapes the workforce and changes what companies are looking for. However, when it comes to proving yourself early in your career, much of the advice hasn't changed.

We rounded up some of the best tips former interns from companies like Google and Tinder have shared with us over the last two years on how they turned their internships into full-time offers. Their paths were different, but the same four lessons kept coming up.

Show eagerness to learn

In addition to taking initiative, interns should prioritize asking questions and show an eagerness to learn. Curiosity remains a key trait that executives look for in employees moving up the ladder.

Victoria Rozanska said she was curious about others and their work.

Victoria Rozanska

Victoria Rozanska, a former Google intern, recently told Business Insider that embracing continuous learning was critical to her success. She said being open to feedback is "key to thriving."

Ryan Stewart, who interned at Tinder before eventually becoming a full-time brand manager, said in July that he was initially nervous about approaching senior leaders, but found that leading with curiosity made people receptive.

Ryan Stewart said he led with curiosity when trying to connect with leaders at Tinder.

Tinder

"If you're seen as being curious, there's no wrongdoing there, and I think you can go for it," Stewart said.

Asking questions is also a key part of learning how to do the job.

Kevin Gutierrez, a recent graduate of Columbia University, who interned at AWS and was later offered a full-time position, told Business Insider that when interns are given a project, it's their responsibility to gain a deep understanding of it. He said if you have a solid grasp on what's going on, it makes the work easier.

Build relationships

Former interns from both Google and Tinder had a similar piece of advice: build relationships whenever you get the chance.

Nancy Qi said she had lunch with her colleagues every day.

Nancy Qi

Nancy Qi, a former Google intern who spent three summers at the tech giant before receiving a full-time offer, told Business Insider in 2024 that she ate lunch with her colleagues every day, and that helped create "team chemistry." Those relationships also made her more excited to come to work and motivated her on the job.

Interns should also strive to make connections beyond their immediate teammates.

Tinder's Stewart said that he scheduled one-on-one meetings with senior directors to learn more about the business.

Even if you don't ultimately stay at the company, those connections can make an internship feel less intimidating and leave you with a stronger network when you graduate.

"It's good to build up a good network of successful people, and it's just good to network with people that are farther along the career path than you," Tawfiq Mohammad, a former Google intern, said last year.

Take initiative

It can be intimidating to speak up when you're one of the least experienced people in the room, but that's all the more reason to use your voice whenever you have the chance. Taylor Wong, a former Tinder intern, said her Gen Z perspective became an asset because colleagues actively wanted to hear from someone in that demographic.

"When you are the Gen Z person in the room, everyone wants your opinion," Wong said in July, adding that other interns should "lean into that superpower."

Taylor Wong interned at Tinder.

Tinder

Interns should take advantage of opportunities to show agency in projects they're assigned.

"You're going to be given a project that summer and try to own that project," Mohammad said about interning at Google. "Try to own it from A to Z."

Eric Brandon Kam, who received an offer at Tinder after his internship, said that for him, that meant speaking up and sharing his perspective on the projects he was assigned.

Eric Brandon Kam is a backend engineer at Tinder.

Eric Brandon Kam

"Instead of just implementing tickets, I gave my own perspective on how we could better engineer a project to prioritize both user outcome and long-term code health," Kam said in July.

Keep track of your work — and your wins

Eventually, every intern has the inevitable conversation about whether they're getting a return offer, but the prep should start before.

Lydia Lam, who completed three Google internships before joining the company full time, recommended "producing a lot of artifacts." She said in 2025 that designs, projects, or other tangible work can demonstrate your skills and impact.

Lydia Lam interned at Google.

Lydia Lam

Qi took a similar approach to documenting her work. At the end of every week, she wrote down notes about what she was stuck on and what she accomplished. When she filled out the reflection at the end of the summer, she included screenshots and links to those weekly summaries. She said it showed effort and allowed the person reviewing her work to see her problem-solving process and how she approached each issue.

Stewart went a step further. He said he spent his internship identifying gaps in the business and pitched his own full-time role at the end of it. He approached the conversation knowing the worst answer was "no," and since his internship was already ending, he figured he had nothing to lose by asking.

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